Is there anything worse than one passenger obliviously doing whatever they want in the cabin, and ruining the flight for everyone else?
Here’s video of a passenger with open window shade, bringing in the bright light of the skies, on a long haul Delta business class flight while “everyone [is] trying to sleep.” They’re in business class for rest and relaxation.
Now, viewing the video it doesn’t appear everyone is trying to sleep. Most of the passengers on this daytime flighthave earphones on and they’re seated upright. Maybe they had been trying to sleep and gave up but that’s not obviously the case here.
And much worse than an open window on a transatlantic flight is trying to be comfortable in the terrible Delta business class on a Boeing 767.
It goes without saying that the passenger at the window controls their own shade. If darkness is important to you, then bring sunglasses or an eye mask. A business class amenity kit may contain a mask.
There are (6) principles of airplane window shades:
- Shades up for takeoff and landing. That’s so everyone’s eyes are well-adjusted to the light, in order to facilitate evacuation in an emergency.
- The person at the window has control of the shade. If you’re in the window seat, you decide the position the shade is in.
- Flight attendant direction trumps. On modern widebodies window shades may be electronic and can be locked into position. A crewmember may decide all shades will be down, for instance, to accommodate passenger sleep. You may think you have control rights because it’s ‘your’ shade (usufructuary rights) but confrontations with cabin crew over this will not end well.
- Avoid blinding light. That’s especially the case on overnight flights and on early mornings. Traveling across time zones means that even though it’s “night” for people on board who may want to sleep, that doesn’t mean the sun isn’t shining where you are physically.
- Accommodate your neighbors. If someone asks you to put the window shade down (or up) consider accommodating you, especially if they have a strong preference and you do not. Don’t just arbitrarily do the thing they object to, or object to moving the position of the shade for its own sake.
- Close the shades before getting off the plane when it’s especially hot at your destination. That will help keep the aircraft cool for the next group of passengers during boarding.
People pay for window seats to look out the window. There are magical sights up in the clouds, they want to appreciate the approach to their destination, or maybe look down at the ice around Greenland. Other passengers want to sleep. And like so many things in a plane, preferences come into conflict.
I like an open window as much as possible, unless the sun is shining through the window so brightly that it interferes with screens. I don’t like flight attendants who require window shades to be closed on daytime flights from Europe to the U.S. since I never sleep on those flights and I find them less draining when I have light. But there’s not a lot I can do on a Boeing 787 when they control the shades, or when crew come around scolding passengers who open thei
There is a special place in hell for people who do this. Glad it’s (often) impossible on the 787 because the windows can be locked.
I would like to have a safety regulation that says shades open during taxi, takeoff, and landing. Some airlines and countries enforce this. It improves situational awareness and would be important in the event of an accident. It is also the most interesting part of the flight.
On daytime flights, open shades provide better light than the overhead lights. On eastbound redeyes, closed shades increase the ability to keep sleeping as the sun rises. But otherwise the window passenger should be able to open their shade if they choose to remain awake.
This is where you let out a ‘this fkn guy’… and end up on r/AirRage…
I really thought that’s why there’s eye masks?????????????
LHR to Bo’s during the day. Is shaded up or wear a mask. If night then shades down.
Some people need to work etc and it is daytime
You can see the guy is a jackbutt. Who wears a baseball cap under headphones while cruising at 36K?
If there’s nothing to look at then why have the window shade open? That being said if there are window views, one primary reason people reserve a window seat, then put on an eye mask. As noted they’re provided in the amenity kit.
You can see the guy is a jack butt. Who wears their baseball cap under headphones while cruising at 36k feet?
Yeah, I do this too, but I will leave it only partially open. If its a daytime flight I like to stay away.
If light bothers people on a long flight, wear eye shades.
Most people are clueless to the beauty of planet Earth. I always fly first class international, and my cabin-mates are all given free sleeping masks. Those who don’t use them are invariably watching reruns of “Cheers” or “Frasier” or the HSN. I’ve seen aurorae borealis. I’ve seen cloud types (and shapes) that will never be seen again. The Earth’s surface is magnificent. Gaze upon it, STFU, and be amazed.
“And much worse than an open window on a transatlantic flight is trying to be comfortable in the terrible Delta business class on a Boeing 767.”
OK Gary, maybe 767 on Delta is not your idea of an ideal biz class on Delta, but for crying out loud why don’t you tell them to close the window so birds can’t come in.
@Carl:
There is safety reg saying window shades must be opened for takeoff and landings.
Windows are for looking out. Wear a mask over eyes or sleep at night.
@Jack — By chance, are you the same ‘Jack’ on DoC that keeps getting replied to by ‘MeOff’? Gives me the ‘lolz’ every time.
I’m all for an open or partially open shade.
1. I like to read and so many of Deltas reading light are fixed and pointing the wrong way. Natural light is so much better.
2. As a pilot, I like the situational awareness of seeing out.
3. Absolutely up anytime below 10,000 feet.
4. In a ground accident situation, the fire department folks can see if the row is occupied. They will try not to spear you with an aircraft penetrating nozzle. Close that shed and they don’t have a clue where you are.
I echo what haolenate says. I almost always pick a window seat because I want to see the view. Otherwise, I might as well pick an aisle seat and have no view. Especially when going to a country I’ve never been to before, I want to look out and see the view. My wife also feels the same, so much so that when we fly business and it’s one of those 1 seat aisles, we’ll arrange seats so that she’ll sit behind me rather than select 2 seats in the middle section just so we can sit together. Now that I’ve stated my position, I will also say that I don’t like confrontation. So, if the whole cabin is dark or everyone is asleep, if I want to look outside, I will roll the window up slightly just enough to see the scenery without annoying the whole cabin. I think that’s a pretty fair compromise.
So…. the 777X will have passenger windows 29% larger than the A350, and 16% larger than the legacy 777. Luv it. I choose and pay for window seats, it’s my prerogative to have the shade open. There’s lots of eye shade purchase options for those that want a dark experience during broad daylight.
After the second time my flight has an inflight emergency that resulted in a crash landing, I too was that one passenger who could not close my window shade. I had to see out, and I was constantly checking for what was going on, even small bumps had me tightening my seat belt. It was no fun for anyone else, but to keep my job, I had to fly, to fly I had to see out. Over the next 2 years I flew almost 400,000 miles with my window shade open. During that time I was able to slowly lower it a bit at a time. I had a doctor’s note that I gave to the flight attendants when they told me to close the window shade. One did not read the note, tore it to shreds and reached over me to close it. Within minutes I was a crumpled ball of a person sobbing. The lead flight attendant finally collected the pieces of my note, reassembled them and read the note. She immediately reopened the shade and draped a blanket over the back of the seat in front of me and my seat, creating a little tent. By landing I was ok to get up and move. Two weeks later I got a note from the airline with an apology and a note for the captain on airline letterhead about my issue. Sometimes people have a need to keep the window shade open. I have successfully flown several million miles since.
I’m that guy! If I fly during the day I keep my shade halfway to full on up. I don’t want to sleep – it’s daytime, so I want sunlight! If I sleep then at night I won’t and so I avoid daytime snoozing. Want to sleep – go ahead, that’s what eye masks are for.
Hi everyone! I am claustrophobic. And i have to fly sometimes. Also some people don’t try for fresh clothes or breath much. So an open shade helps me feel as if there is space (keeping panic attacks away) and air. Neither is that true. But it’s enough of a trick usually to keep me from panicking or getting out of sorts . So some people are probably doing that. Also you are supposed to try to stay oriented especially on long trips.
This whole topic is just another opportunity for liberals to complain – much ado about nothing. Bitch, bitch, bitch. If a liberal was sitting in a window seat and wanted the shade up, they would scream and holler that their rights were being infringed upon if told to lower the shade.
I select the window (and often pay extra for it) because I enjoy the view, prefer natural light, and have seasonal affective disorder … I discovered the hard way several years ago that Seat Guru was no longer being updated when I found myself in one of those 737 “window” seats that is actually a wall. That brutal four-hour flight is why my shade is never coming all the way down.
I might go halfway if someone asks nicely, but I read and do crosswords while I fly, so I need good light.
If someone is paying thousands of dollars for a ticket and picks a window seat shouldn’t he be able to look out the window? They make eye masks a reason. People’s glowing electronic devices and seat back screens bother me. That’s why I have an eye mask. People talking bother me including flight attendants chatting in the galley. That’s why I bring ear plugs. Crying kids bother me that’s why I bring ear plugs and have a noise canceling headset.
@ Gary — “It goes without saying that the passenger at the window controls their own shade”. NOT. Thank God for the Dreamliner.
@Gene — Yup; the only decent thing Boeing’s done in a while… 787 ‘frosty’ windows.
Ah yes, the ultra premium Delta One on their premium 767-300ER aircraft shines again.
Nothing screams premium quite like being able to see all of your seatmates because one passenger leaves their window shade open.
Indicative of petulant child line behavior. I can almost hear them stamp their feet as they say the want to look out the window.
Lack of consideration. “ME FIRST “ mentality.
Just what are you going to see out of the window at 35,000 feet? You just look down on solid white cloud cover.
Absolutely brainless.
There is a difference between keeping the window shade open versus being a jacka$$. If someone TRULY desires to look out their window, I don’t have a problem with it. But if they’re working, for example, on their computer, close the shade and turn on your light! It’s only going to Boter your neighbor, not the entire cabin …
Liberals? WTHECK David r miller? How did you squeeze that into the conversation? That’s just as dumb as conservatives saying people who marched in the NO KINGS rally are anti American. You sound like the one b+/(#+%@!
Why is this news? Who cares? Too much hearing about flying. So much sensational so called reporting.
@Peter — While I totally agree, at times, we must playfully ’embrace’ the clickbait. It is the ‘coin for the deed’… and, in this case, Gary is our ferryman to cross the river Styx, within the credit card, points, and miles community.
@darb — David R. Miller is one our resident bigots at VFTW. I’d argue @Walter Barry is another. @Not Scott is an outright supremacist. There used to be a guy, @Andy S, who was pretty bad, too. Some are quite direct, others are ‘thinly-veiled,’ and some quite subtle. Call ’em out when ya see ’em.
@ Considerate — Well, someone had to vote for the drooling, diaper-wearer in charge.
@ David R. Miller — Time for your diaper change and nap. Back to bed now.
Sleep masks are literally a thing. They fit nicely in a pocket. This is Ms.Manners vs “Always be prepared”. You can control your preparation, not the idiots in the wild.
Some of us keep them open for a reason. I have severe flight anxiety but have to do it to visit family. Keeping the window open helps calm me because I can see that even with turbulence, we aren’t plummeting to the ground. I know it’s an irrational fear, but this is how I cope. Especially now that I’m pregnant and can’t take Xanax to help blunt the fear, i need the coping mechanisms more than ever. Don’t just assume the person is being an ass – they may have a very real reason for doing so.
If you select the window seat it is yours to do what you like.Other people need to get over it.
The natural light through an open window is much better for reading. On a daylight flight, if you want it dark, put on eyeshades.
I had exactly this same issue, two days ago, on a transatlantic flight from Paris to Seattle. Our flight departed at 4PM and would be landing at 5PM in Seattle. About one hour into the flight, everyone was instructed to close their shades. We did not. Why? Two reasons. One, it was just 5PM. It’s not beddie-bye time. Two, funny you mentioned Greenland, but I actually cared to look at England, Scotland AND Greenland! I paid extra to be able to choose my seat (and I chose a window)!
The head flight attendant came by to bark at me to close my shade. He said “everyone is trying to sleep.” I replied “everyone is watching TV.” He said “lots of people have made requests to have the cabin dark.” I said “funny, I’ve heard no call buttons and you’ve all been doing the drink cart. I also don’t remember you taking a vote.” He said “numerous people have asked, and the sunlight is blinding.” I said “my window faces east. We’re flying due north. The sun is on the opposite side of the aircraft.” He said “it’s too bright.” I said “It’s already past 5PM. It’s October. It’s not that bright, and it only looks bright because you ordered everyone to make the cabin pitch black.”
And then he said “are we going to have a problem here?” And I decided I didn’t want to become a YouTube video in Seattle.
Thing is, when you buy a seat, you get what COMES WITH that seat. For example, I personally don’t recline my seat. I know it usually hits the knees of the person behind me. Just like I don’t like having the seat in front of me slammed into MY knees. BUT, since the seats recline, I have to accept the choice of the purchaser of their seat.
I like looking out the window. If you want dark then bring a sleeping mask with you. Quit being such babies, I will get even more joy and always leave the shade open after reading this article.
@ carletonm — If you can’t see using the overhead light, get your cataracts removed.
Some folks probably should just stay home if they can’t ‘handle’ all the idiosyncrasies of a couple hundred other people in a metal (sorry, ‘composite’) tube going 550 mph, 37,000 feet above the ocean. Like, please do take 20x as long a journey on the Queen Mary 2 if you cannot possibly ‘deal’ with others on Delta’s ancient 763; enjoy gentle roll of the North Atlantic instead. Watch out for icebergs! (Who am I kidding, all melted these days anyway.)
If people want to sleep when light can come into the windows, they should use sleep masks. I think that the real problem is that strong light can interfere with people seeing their entertainment device. For daytime flights over land, there is often something interesting to view. I have seen the Grand Canyon from more than six miles up. I have seen Mt. Rainier, I have seen snow covered Alaska. I have seen the transition from USA airspace to Russian airspace.
What is there to see? A hell of a lot more than with a closed shade. You want to control the window, you buy the seat. I keep mine up day or night because I like looking out the window (shocker). If you want to sleep and the light hurts your *widdy biddy* eyes, then bring a mask (or use the free one they give you). Your delicate sensibilities are not my f*ing problem.
Unless you are at the controls, there is no reason to have a view outside. I always get a chuckle out of the dimwits that immediately open the shades to see what we hit, during turbulence. If you need light, there’s a reading light.
I don’t think I’ve been on a business class flight where the kit didn’t have eye shades. Except perhaps for a short domestic trip where it wouldn’t matter and there’s no kit, I don’t see this as a big problem in business class. Cabin lights are typically turned off when it’s dark out. But I remember when stewardesses used to tell passengers to lower the shades so that people could watch the movie on that one screen that showed it. So the idea that the flight crew can tell passengers when to close the shades is nothing new.
There is a possibility that passenger airplanes in the future won’t have windows. Such an airplane would be lighter in weight and have less drag. Viewing outside could be done with cameras fed to entertainment systems and could end up with better views and views from multiple angles and also include zoom. The views would be available at all seats. The windows for the pilots could be left out for the same reasons and the front of the airplane could be recontoured for less drag and better fuel efficiency. It would also be less weight and possibly structurally stronger. Multiple cameras and viewing systems would create the redundancy needed.
Hot take but this is why I actually prefer the electronic shades because your can put them on medium and still have a great view without it being blindingly bright.
I know people don’t like them because they can be locked by the flight crew which, fair, but outside of that scenario I think they are great which hasn’t happened to often for me. Hope they become more common.
For some reason, many people, especially in US airlines, want to sleep right after the meal, I’m sure the FA is happy with this. Others like to sit in total darkness. For me, when it is daytime in both origin and destination time zones, it’s absolutely a daytime flight and there is no reason to close the window shade. Yet some ignorant and selfish people want to make a big deal over it instead of just closing their eyes or using an eyeshade. Light is the number one factor affecting jetlag. People can use an eyeshade to simulate darkness. I have no way to simulate sunlight. I wonder if people like this complain on domestic daytime flights when the shades are open. Or at work in the office, do they force everyone to close the window blinds and turn off the lights? How ridiculous.
@ H I wonder if the flight attendants were really telling or were they actually just ASKING pax to lower their window shades?
As someone who flights transatlantic business class pretty regularly, I always stay awake on the daytime flights to the US and love the views. I do my best to pick windows seats and have the shades open, but lower them when asked by FAs or other pax (which happens ~70% of the time) to avoid conflict. That said, I don’t get it – just wear an eye mask if it bothers you and you want to sleep? On nighttime flights I take a sleeping pill (or two) and put on my mask as soon as we take off – no issues at all. Would never ask anyone to close their shades or turn off a light mid-flight.
Try a nine hour flight next to someone who doesn’t understand the concept of deodorant. Or a red eye in the window seat and a couple in the other two seats.in the row where the woman spends the flight vomiting, but for some reason is sitting in the middle seat instead of the aisle seat.
@James — Huge fan of your *widdy biddy* comment.
@Pilot93434 — And, if instrument trained, even the pilot doesn’t always need to have a window either, eh?
@jns — No windows? How sad. Also, I find it curious, your earlier emphasis on ‘Russian airspace’ above, when it is (and should be) avoided these days, lest we have another KA007, MH17, Azerbaijan, or Smolensk. Makes me think you just showed your cards. You and a few others strike me as a bit too ‘cozy’ with Putin talking-points. Tell us, who is the aggressor in Ukraine? I’ll give you a hint, perhaps it’s the side who illegally annexes their neighbors (since 2014). So, are you one of these right-wingers or chaos agents who likes foreign dictators?
Yeah, I stopped giving a schitt a long time ago… If you want to sleep, bring an eye mask. Full stop, period. I paid for a window seat specifically for the purpose to look outside the plane. A lot of people say “there’s nothing to see out there but water and sky”… No no… There’s more than that. There’s a TON you can see if you’re looking. Also, the overhead lights don’t cast enough light for me, but you know what does? You guessed it… The sun! If you want to be comfy on a flight, you are responsible for your own comfort.
And so far as the 787 is concerned, any FA who restricts control of the shade, deserves to burn in hell. In fact, AA has a policy in which FAs are not allowed to lock the shades any more. If they do, they can get into a ton of trouble… I went on a flight where they did this about a month after the policy was enacted. I complained, and later found out that FA got into serious trouble. But then again, that was her own fault. She habitually ignored that policy. I know someone who knows her.
The flight from USA airspace to Russian airspace was on a KAL 747 years ago. It was an almost free mileage flight after Northwest became part of Delta and I wanted to use up almost all of my miles that were now Delta miles. I had slept a bit on the SEA to ICN flight after the meal but then I woke up over Alaska. From maps I knew the general landform going west and how Alaska reaches out to a point northwest of Nome, Alaska. To me it was fascinating. KAL obviously had made agreements with Russia. Knowing the history of KAL 007 made it more interesting. I don’t think the airplane had seat back IFE so I couldn’t follow the flight on it. After entering Russian airspace, we flew over land for quite a while and finally over the Sea of Okhotsk until we were quite a bit south. I don’t think we flew over Sakhalin Island so we flew over the mainland (as best I know) until making a jog around North Korean airspace to get to ICN.
@jns — Nice. KAL still flies their 748 from JFK-ICN. I really enjoy those 14-hour flights with them. Got to fly up-top in their Business class. Much preferred the window seat (more space) up there. I really like the Republic of Korea (South Korea) and hope the upcoming merger of KAL and Asiana goes well for them. Have been to Seoul, but want to return to see Busan and Jeju someday.
Business class? There’s a eye mask from the amenity kit, use it.
Oh come on. If you’re tired, sleep. If someone wants to look out the window, that’s their right.
Hint: If you close your eyes, it gets dark.
Once the plane is in the air, destination time rules apply. If it’s night time there, shades close. If it’s daytime at destination, shades open, even if it’s daplease.
Individual window dwellers can open/close as they please.
FAs should not cater to Individual Karen/Kevin’s complaints.
PIC can kick everyone’s butt.
Good night y’all.
@FlyOften — Sir, this is an Outback Steakhouse… there are ‘no rules, just right.’
Looks to me like pretty much everyone is sat up awake just watching the screens in that video and clearly he is looking out at something. I love to watch the world go by outside. I don’t get the, what seems like a recent trend, of people getting in a metal tube full of windows in the daytime and closing them all to sit and be blinded by artificial light from the IFE or cabin lights instead. For your natural body clock you may not want to sleep, example flying NYC to London day flight where it will be daytime when you take off and land. If the sun angle is low and you’re going to be blinding people or it’s night and sunrise may wake sleeping people sure close it, but for a fully daytime flight, no. Usually I’ll close it halfway just to not feel guilty
Maybe it’s from growing up in Alaska (land of midnight sun)…
But people complaining they can’t sleep because it’s light just makes them sound like four year olds.
Most airline charges extra for window seats. Therefore, if someone pays extra for a window seat, it is their prerogative whether to keep the shade open or closed. Why are flight attendants requiring shades to be down or overriding passengers’ control (B787)? Airlines should provide eye masks to passengers on these flights so they can sleep if they want to, without depriving someone else of the window privilege. This is why there needs to be a passenger bill of rights, which would establish regulations that airlines must follow and enforce.
Courtesy. A word quickly disappearing in today’s modern world.
This is a pet peeve of mine, and I think Gary has missed some of the nuances.
If it is an evening domestic flight then open/closed should make no difference whatsoever.
If it is a daytime domestic flight, then open/closed should make no difference, provided the sun isn’t shining into someones eyes. Unfortunately I see this all the time where the sun cuts across the cabin and lands on passengers across or down the aisle. That’s not acceptable.
If it is eastbound TATL at night then you should close the shades to allow passengers to sleep, even into the next morning (which is likely quite early based on the original time zone). Open the shade to admire the view for a few minutes, but then close it, unlike the numnuts in the photo.
If it is westbound transcon, TATL or TPAC, sorry you are out of luck. If you want to sleep then bring eyeshades. If westbound flight with midnight departure, then obviously you should keep the shades closed during sleeping hours.
It’s pretty simple but the biggest pet peeve are the people who seem clueless that sun is shining right in my eyes. And even worse they often doze off with the shade open.
@Boraxo — Well said. I’d accept you as judge, jury, and executioner. You’ll represent us well at Zorkfest. *salute*
Nah.
If you want the window shade closed, get the window seat.
If you don’t want light coming in your eyes, get an eye mask.
This (closing shades) is a fairly recent phenomenon. I remember a time when people never closed the shades. Then in-flight movies, tablets, laptops, and phones took command and people wanted darkness so that they could watch something on the idiot box that they could see at home.
As for only seeing the tops of clouds–that’s the BEST! To see random thunderheads sailing in a white sea is spectacular! Even just a sea of white is beautiful.
Unfortunately, now that my back’s gone bad, I have to get an aisle seat so that I can stand and flex once in a while. But I appreciate it when people nearby leave their windows wide open.
I pay extra for a big seat, I pay extra for a window. None of anyone’s business but i get claustrophobic so I close all but one window and leave a small gap so I can see outside. I also enjoy it, the view out that window is not the same as the online crap on a screen. It is riding on an airplane folks, lighten up. As for the digital shades, love them. I am fine with a dark tint because I can still see outside and everyone is happy.